Archive for the ‘Old Age Creation’ Category


July 26, 2017

by Paul Kaurin – 26 July 2017

YOUNG EARTH FALLACY?  What difference does it make? Or, do I hear a ‘so what’?  I what my reader to understand that I had this belief system struggle.   As a result, I started to ask questions of what is the truth about the “In the Beginning.”  I became a YEC-Skeptic because God’s nature had conflicting answers to the YEC 6-days problem of “when did creation begin.”  Thank God I didn’t become a YEC-Cynic and didn’t say “damn the torpedoes – full steam ahead – because Science is a LIE.”

If you ask me why I now don’t believe in the young earth theory of creation, my answer is, because of the General Revelation (GR) of God.  This to the non-Christian is known as Nature.  Here are some of the reasons why I reject a young earth (6-10 thousand years) creation event and why I embrace an old earth (long period of time) creation event.

WMAP is reason one:  Thanks to the WMAP satellite, we can see with great certainty the age of the Universe to about 1%: 13.7 ± 0.13 billion years.


expansion wmap

Four simple functions emerge from the data: 1) the universe had a beginning, 2) as it gets older and older it gets colder and colder, 3) as light photons move away from the observer, red-shift gets higher and higher, 4) the universe becomes denser and denser looking closer and closer to the beginning.

Reason two:  The age of ice cores in both the north and south poles is confirmed to 750,000 years old and approaching 1 million years old.  There are literally kilometers of ice cores in storage that capture historical events in the “rings” of the ice.  Major volcano eruptions are seen throughout the layers.  Each volcano has its own particulate signature so those are verified with the geological record.  Young earth would say that each layer is a snow storm but they have no follow-up evidence to support that claim.  But there’s more.  Embedded in these cores are cycles of eccentricities as predicted by Milutin Milanković.   The Milanković theory describes the collective effects of Earth’s orbital forcing upon climate change. It is seen in the cores as orbital inclination cycles of the earth’s orbit drifting moving up and down relative to its present orbit.

ice core

When as a WWI POW, Milanković mathematically theorized these variations but did not study the three-dimensional movement.  The 3D movement is known as “precession of the ecliptic” or “planetary precession” or VSOP.[1]  VSOP allows prediction of past and future orbital parameters with greater accuracy.  The figure below shows past and future Milanković cycles with the vertical gray line as current conditions, at 2 kilo-years A.D.  More recent researchers noted this drift and that the orbit also moves relative to the orbits of the other planets.  The invariable plane, the plane that represents the angular momentum of the Solar System, is approximately the orbital plane of Jupiter.


— ε is obliquity (axial tilt).
— e is eccentricity.
— ϖ is longitude of perihelion.
— e sin(ϖ) is the precession index, which together with obliquity, controls the seasonal cycle of insolation (the amount of solar radiation reaching a given area).
— is the calculated daily-averaged insolation at the top of the atmosphere, on the day of the summer solstice at 65 degrees N latitude.
— Benthic forams and — Vostok ice core show two distinct proxies for past global sea level and temperature, from ocean sediment and Antarctic ice respectively.

The inclination of Earth’s orbit drifts up and down relative to its present orbit with a cycle having a period of about 70,000 years. The inclination of the Earth’s orbit has a 100,000-year cycle relative to the invariable plane. This is very similar to the 100,000-year eccentricity period. This 100,000-year cycle closely matches the 100,000-year pattern of ice ages.


A study of the chronology of Antarctic ice cores using oxygen-nitrogen ratios in air bubbles trapped in the ice, which appear to respond directly to the local insolation, concluded that the climatic response documented in the ice cores was driven by northern hemisphere insolation as proposed by the Milankovitch Hypothesis (Kawamura et al,, Nature, 23 August 2007, vol. 448, pp 912-917).  This is an additional validation of the Milankovitch hypothesis by a relatively novel method and is inconsistent with the “inclination” theory of the 100,000-year cycle.[2]


I notice that authenticity of truth follows the Biblical or Scientific Methods when it continues to grow exponentially in the age of information.  Example: In a court of law, when many witnesses come forth and say the same thing but from different eyes, the truth becomes more compelling for a jury to decide the case in question.  It is the same with the truth of any theory or with biblical understanding (Christian Apologetics).

Apologetics is the function of defending the truth of Christian faith and is driven by an intellectual framework of theology and seeks to find answers to intellectual obstacles.  It challenges the world to take Christianity seriously by arguing a defense of General Revelation of God (GR) (truths of nature) and Special Revelation of God (SR) (truths of Scriptures).   The engine of apologetics is the work of the Holy Spirit to reveal truth and legitimacy in the minds of mankind.  It is important to understand that interpretation of GR or of SR must be truthful but “interpretation of the inerrant Word is not in itself inerrant.”  YEC has several problems with SR interpretation that corrupts the truth of God’s GR.   When GR and SR do not agree, the world has every right to reject their theory.  But in that rejection of YEC theory, the world makes the mistake of rejecting God who made creation.   If God is the complete essence of Truth and the interpretation of YEC makes His GR a lie, then the world has every right to say, “If God lies then God is not God?”  The real answer is: nature and scripture cannot lie, misinterpretation of either can.  We can say that the pure data of GR and the pure words of SR are absolutes.  When interpretation doesn’t tell the truth of these absolutes then that untruth becomes an “unbelief.”  Scripture says that unbelief is darkness.

Example:  Apologetics uses (GR) of God’s nature as a testimony of (SR) truth of God’s Word to show the concept of the universe expanding which was first proclaimed thousands of years before Edwin Powell Hubble observed it at Mount Wilson. (Job 9:8, Isiah 45:12) [3]

When dealing with Gentiles outside of the Christian faith, The Apostle Paul, when he was in Athens, started with the Greek’s understanding of the world.  He said to them, “I see where you are worshiping at an altar ‘dedicated to the unknown god’.”  Now notice he started where they were in their understanding and ended up with some influential people who received the truth of the Gospel.   I asked a YEC believer pastor, “can a person who still believes in a very old creation be converted and receive the gift of Salvation?”  The question could not be answered!  That explains volumes and the extent of this war in some Churches.  This is what is keeping the seeking and unsaved from coming to God.  I see this as offensive to God and his grace.  So, how does God correct this untruth?

When dealing with the Christian, the Holy Spirit uses conviction to hone core beliefs and bring them nearer to the correct interpretation of the Scriptures.   I would point out that we need to take the pursuit of truth and understanding seriously.  We should never take the position that we already know it all.  That is why we are told to test the Spirits and hold on to the good.  The Holy Spirit is the giver of truth and testifies to it.   It makes me sad when I see Christians resist or ignore His Holy Spirit’s work by choosing unbelief, blindness and not looking at or seeking the truth (light).

Think about it, Apologetics is a form of Spiritual warfare.  2 Corinthians Chapter 10, Paul defined the warfare as fighting strongholds and strongholds as ‘arguments’.  Vs.5  [Inasmuch as we] refute arguments and theories and reasoning’s and every proud and lofty thing that sets itself up against the [true] knowledge of God; and we lead every thought and purpose away captive into the obedience of Christ, (Amplified Bible)

These arguments that use thoughts, ideas, theories that have no origin of truth are used as weapons made up prepositional formulas for the purpose of shoring up a false interpretation.  This is the YEC Fallacy, in that it cannot come up with truthful astronomical and geological evidence to present to the world.  When these false arguments become the foundation of a belief system of an individual body of believers, it is known as a prosopon (Greek for mask) tool.  The untrue belief system grows bigger for a purpose.  It becomes an organization as a defense weapon to shore up these beliefs.  This YEC stronghold organization is ICR (Institute for Creation Research).  The distribution of misinformation is for themselves and used by YEC believers to present to the world as their “truth.”  What people see is a theory without truthful and testable evidence.  Those who understand truth reject the belief and the ICR.  To be sure YEC will not present “fingerprints” similar to WMAP or Ice Rings as evidence in their apologetics because their “prepositional” interpretation of the Hebrew word:  יום yôm – yome or in the English, “day” as just 24 hrs and not the fourth definition of the word (long periods of time) has clouded their thinking.  If Jesus were walking among us today and witnessed YEC leaders of the Church, I wonder what would He say or do?  Not all YEC’ers are aware of the facts and interpretations of Scripture from the Hebrew words.  But if my blog has put some information into your understanding, you may want to do what I did and move away from the fallacy and ASK THE HOLY SPIRIT TO GIVE YOU THE TRUTH of this creation.  He promised to give truth to us – IF we ask.

As in any warfare, there are two sides.  Let me point my reader to an organization that is dedicated to using both (GR and SR) or the “two books” of truth.  Reasons to Believe in uses these two Revelations to explain the convergence of Science and Faith.   They do not complicate or distort the inerrant truths of our universe.  They use the Biblical and the Scientific methods and they do this without contortions or a parade of unproven theories and complicated adjustments.

I am reminded of a warning about playing games with unbelief.  If we force our mind to reject something long enough, however close to the truth it is, our heart of hearts will eventually reject and lose that understanding of truth.  This includes knowing the difference between good and evil.  What mankind wants to see is authenticity and honesty.  Again, In the Greek theater, actors used masks (prosopon from the Greek) to portray different people in the play to ‘Play act’ (hypókrisis from the Greek) or in the English ‘hypocrisy.’  This mask is a man or a woman in the play who conceals the real gender of the person.  It is safe to say that most people can detect truth when they see it.  I ask my Christian brothers and sisters to not play act in the game of unbelief and investigate and search for the truth of Creation with Scripture in hand. Non-Christians are watching and waiting for the truth of God’s universe and His word.  When the truth is revealed from both GR and SR, then salvation is more inviting and legitimate for those seeking God.


A real apologist should be characterized by authenticity and purity – “hate the evil, cling to the good.”  This choice of anger does not sin.   The heart of a true Christian Community is honesty in love.  The first sin of the New Testament church was dishonesty.   I pray that real and honest teachers of truth will show up and take steps to embrace the truths of GR and SR.  Words coming from truthful beliefs should be honorable and real at every level.   What’s at stake by saying false theories is the loss of hearers and seekers for God’s love and the free gift of salvation.

For suggested reading, see the following:

A Matter of Days – author and astronomer Hugh Ross addresses questions and explores how the creation-day controversy developed. History, theology, science, and Scripture reveal creation’s big picture.

Why the Universe Is the Way It Is – “Why?” may be the most common and emotionally charged question in human experience. With the Bible in one hand and the latest scientific findings in the other, astronomer Hugh Ross tackles many of our most pressing cosmic “whys.”

Improbable Planet – In this pioneering book, Hugh Ross helps readers uncover the countless miracles that undergird the exquisitely fine-tuned planet we call home—as if Someone had us in mind all along.




[3]   Bible verses say that God stretched out the heavens and is still stretching out the heavens (continuing action):

  1. Who alone stretches out the heavens, And tramples down the waves of the sea; (Job 9:8)
  2. Covering Thyself with light as with a cloak, Stretching out heaven like a tent curtain. (Psalm 104:2)
  3. It is He who sits above the circle of the earth, And its inhabitants are like grasshoppers, Who stretches out the heavens like a curtain And spreads them out like a tent to dwell in. (Isaiah 40:22)
  4. Thus says God the Lord, Who created the heavens and stretched them out, Who spread out the earth and its offspring, Who gives breath to the people on it, And spirit to those who walk in it, (Isaiah 42:5)
  5. Thus says the Lord, your Redeemer, and the one who formed you from the womb, “I, the Lord, am the maker of all things, Stretching out the heavens by Myself, And spreading out the earth all alone” (Isaiah 44:24)
  6. “It is I who made the earth and created man upon it. I stretched out the heavens with My hands, And I ordained all their host.” (Isaiah 45:12)
  7. “Surely My hand founded the earth, And My right hand spread out the heavens; When I call to them, they stand together.” (Isaiah 48:13)
  8. That you have forgotten the Lord your Maker, Who stretched out the heavens, And laid the foundations of the earth; That you fear continually all day long because of the fury of the oppressor, As he makes ready to destroy? But where is the fury of the oppressor? (Isaiah 51:13)
  9. It is He who made the earth by His power, Who established the world by His wisdom; And by His understanding, He has stretched out the heavens. (Jeremiah 10:12)
  10. It is He who made the earth by His power, Who established the world by His wisdom, And by His understanding, He stretched out the heavens. (Jeremiah 51:15)
  11. The burden of the word of the Lord concerning Israel. Thus declares the Lord who stretches out the heavens, lays the foundation of the earth and forms the spirit of man within him, (Zechariah 12:1)

Transcending 11 space time dimensions

January 25, 2012

Revised 12/06/2016

How does the concept of God transcending at least the equivalent of 11 space-time dimensions enhance your understanding of heaven and the struggles you face in this creation?

Cosmic microwave background fluctuations

Thanks to photos and data from three satellites; 1) NASA COBE launched Nov 1989, NASA WMAP launched Jun 2001 and the ESA/NASA PLANCK launched May 2009, we can see with great certainty the age of the universe to 1%: 13.7 ± 0.13 billion years.  In cosmology, Cosmic Microwave Background (CMB) radiation is thermal radiation filling the observable universe almost uniformly.  CMB radiation is well explained as radiation left over from an early stage in the development of the universe, and its discovery is considered a landmark test of the Big Bang model of the universe. When the universe was young, before the formation of stars and planets, it was smaller, much hotter, and filled with a uniform glow from its white-hot fog of hydrogen plasma.  As the universe expanded, both the plasma and the radiation filling it grew cooler. When the universe cooled enough, protons and electrons could form neutral atoms. These atoms could no longer absorb the thermal radiation, and the universe became transparent instead of being an opaque fog. The photons that existed at that time have been propagating ever since, though growing fainter and less energetic, since exactly the same photons fill a larger and larger universe.[1]

These three satellites have independently confirmed one great and profound detail; the universe had a beginning.  When we look at the CMB, it is the dominant and first form of energy that still fills the whole universe.  Even though the universe started with the “Big Bang,” there was no explosion.  If it were a “bang,” there would be a center point of the beginning visible.  CMB reveals an expansion in all directions equally; an inflation within matter, energy, space and time.  The infinities of temperature, energy, and mass at the beginning are not well described by our present mathematics.  Four-dimensional space-time equations fail to describe the universe reality at the quantum level.  The reason for this failure is reality is no longer understood as four-dimensional but with extra-dimensions.  Thanks to CERN, extra dimensions, gravitons, and tiny black holes are not science fiction but explain a quantum level reality.  This is why string theory is the tool of choice.  String theory includes extra dimensions of at least eleven dimensions that describe the universe at the unified singularity in the beginning.  What leads us to this understanding?

COBE project scientist Dr. John Mather at Goddard elaborates.  “When we look at the cosmic background radiation we’re actually looking at the dominant form of energy in the whole universe. This radiation fills the whole sky, comes from every direction, and so it adds up to be a hundred times as much energy as comes from all the stars, all the galaxies, all the suns, all the planets that people can see with their own eyesIt’s a hundred times as much as that.   So it’s very important to realize we’re looking at the dominant energy of the whole universe; this is the remnant of the Big Bang itself we’re studying with the COBE satellite.[2] COBE was the first instrument used to investigate such matters as, what made the universe uniform on such a gigantic scale, and does it have a center or an edge?  The mission ended Dec 1993 but more surprises were to come from WMAP satellite.

WMAP has put the “precision” in “precision cosmology” by reducing the allowed volume of cosmological parameters by a factor of 30,000 and produced the first fine-resolution (0.2 degrees) full-sky map of the microwave sky.  WMAP nailed down the curvature of space to within 1% of “flat” Euclidean.  The CMB became the “premier baryonometer” of the universe with WMAP’s precision determination that ordinary atoms (also called baryons) make up only 4.6% of the universe (to within 0.1%).   WMAP’s complete census of the universe finds that dark matter (not made up of atoms) make up 23.3% (to within 1.3%).  WMAP’s accuracy and precision determined that dark energy makes up 72.1% of the universe (to within 1.5%), causing the expansion rate of the universe to speed up. – “Lingering doubts about the existence of dark energy and the composition of the universe dissolved when the WMAP satellite took the most detailed picture ever of the cosmic microwave background (CMB).”[3]  WMAP has sorted through the possibilities of what transpired in the first trillionth of a trillionth of a second, ruling out well-known textbook models for the first time.  With WMAP giving answers to some of the questions of what happened in the beginning of our universe; the newest satellite PLANCK provides a survey that gives greater refinement and detailed resolutions of the echoes of the CMB.  It has already revealed new mysteries of the universe.  Its mission is complete and full analysis of the data was published as of Dec 2012.

The second PLANCK survey data was released early 2011 and 2012 was the third.  Planck instruments take measurements at wavelengths between the infrared and radio — not in the visible light spectrum — to reveal an otherwise invisible population of galaxies shrouded in dust, billions of years in the past.  Much like a hidden parchment found barred for centuries, data examined and interpreted, reveal cosmic truth from a data language of the past.  Preliminary data from these surveys have been released, and results are said to indicate that the data quality is excellent.  Planck will provide a major source of information relevant to several cosmological and astrophysical issues, such as testing theories of the early universe and the origin of cosmic structure.[4]   Final analysis continued into 2016.  The aims include:

  • High-resolution detections of both the total intensity and polarization of the primordial CMB anisotropies
  • Creation of a catalog of galaxy clusters through the Sunyaev-Zel’dovich effect
  • Observations of the gravitational lensing of the CMB, as well as the integrated Sachs-Wolfe effect
  • Observations of bright extragalactic radio (active galactic nuclei) and infrared (dusty galaxy) sources
  • Observations of the Milky Way, including the local interstellar medium, distributed synchrotron emission and measurements of the galactic magnetic field.
  • Studies of the local Solar System, including planets, asteroids, comets and the zodiacal light.

With the collaboration of these three independent finely tuned instruments, their “voices” (CMB radiation) reveals with great certainty the past beginning as very old.  We find ourselves looking backward into time.  As we look further and further out in space we see further back in time because the constraints of time and light have a finite speed limit.  We are looking at the astronomical record (photos) as if from the rearview mirror of the past moving away and expanding.  Psa 19:1-4 “There is no speech nor spoken word [from the stars]; their voice is not heard. Yet their voice [in evidence] goes out through all the earth, their sayings to the end of the world.  Of the heavens has God made a tent for the sun.” [Rom 10:18] (Amplified Bible)

We view the past with great certainty but we find ourselves unable to physically view our future.  The fabric of space-time is expanding or inflating and is being stretched out by dark energy.  It turns out that not only the fabric tent of space-time is inflating but this inflation is accelerating.  Dark energy is causing the inflation of space-time to accelerate.  The expansion of space-time will continue growing to the point where it will surpass the speed of light.  This is where our neighboring stars will no longer be seen.  This is where we will no longer see the past and never the future?  Can life survive in this inflating space-time environment?  Can this go on forever?  Will matter fly apart?

Paul Davies explains “… long before anything unpleasant happens on a grand scale, our sun will have passed its use-by date.  Probably in a little over a billion years from now, it will have grown uncomfortably hot, and Earth will face a habitability crisis.  So one way or another, it looks as if life cannot survive forever within this universe.”[5]  So we do not have a future apart from an outside intervention.

In his book and DVD Beyond the Cosmos, Astronomer Hugh Ross presented the argument that God’s prophetic writings look forward in time.  That is why His Word is true.  This because what He says will happen, happens.  He is not constrained to just 4 space-time dimensions of our universe.  God sees our timeline from beginning to end inclusively.  He sees it as it was, as it is and as it will be with His separate trans-/extra-dimensional nature.  In string theory, there can be at the quantum level 10 or more space-time dimensions tightly curled up.  God has demonstrated in His Word that he interacts with his creation through His nature and power over these trans-/extra-dimensions.

We see the future from the ancient words written on the past parchment manuscripts of His Word.  This demonstrates two things about his nature.  God is both within this time-space dimension and Transcendent, outside our universe with two or more time and four or more space dimensions of His own.  This is not a new way of understanding the nature of God but gives an explanation of what is going on.  An example of this is the witnessing of an outside of nature extra-dimensional Glory of God.  It has been seen through the ages.

This outside of nature Glory was seen by many Old and New Testament followers of Messiah.  The Word says that the Glory of God was revealed through His Son (The God-Man) Messiah Jesus. (Transfiguration)  The New Testament tells of one follower, Stephen in Acts 7:55,56 who saw it.   “But he, full of the Holy Spirit and controlled by Him, gazed into heaven and saw the glory (the splendor and majesty) of God, and Jesus standing at God’s right hand;   And he said, Look! I see the heavens opened, and the Son of man standing at God’s right hand!”  (Amplified Bible)

This Glory was seen by my grandfather Hawkin and my uncle Ted on their deathbeds when they suddenly open their eyes and looked up.  They saw the perfect Glory of God in their last moments of life.  Then they slipped away into the next life (dimension) with their Savior.

One of the concepts in String Theory is a multiverse.  It does not describe what it looks like and many scientists try.  Is the Glory sighting part of the multiverse?  Some have their doubt’s.  I personally believe it is a YES because of what I read in the Holy Book of God.  God’s Transcendent Power allows His agents to move in and out of this space-time universe.

And so, I wonder what work the Father has in mind for us when in the future we move into His new trans-/extra-dimensional universe and look perfectly through His windshield of HIS NOW time-dimensions?  That would be THE BIG WOW for me.

Apart from God’s intervention, life for mankind in this universe has no future.  We can only survive through a relationship with our Maker in a newly created universe prepared for us.  We are His highest Creation as “in the image of God; Body, Soul, and Spirit.  What reoccurs in Genesis is God calling His creation good.   But then He says there is something not good.

Gen 2:18 Then the LORD God said, “It is not good for the man to be alone. I will make a helper who is right for him.”

The focus here is that God wants Adam to have a RELATIONSHIP and this relationship is one of love and intimacy with his bride and wife Eve.  This speaks volumes about what God wants for our lives.  God the Son speaks of the Church as His bride.

God is described as a triune being (Trinity) and the relationship is (Father, Son, and Holy Spirit).  The nature of the Family is the relationship between Husband, Wife, and Children.  And of these two examples of relationships displays ONENESS.   Christ said, “I and the Father are one.”  Husband and wife become one flesh

God wants a relationship and an interaction with His highest created being.  God the Son said He was going away to prepare a place for His disciples.  For me to understand that He can do this through His power over trans-/extra-dimensions, gives me great hope of life everlasting in the future.  With His power, He ascends into heaven and in like manner He promises He will return for His bride.  Because He has demonstrated his love toward us in that while we were yet sinners, Christ-Messiah died in our place.  He lived, died and through his power over matter energy space and time; He then rose from death, which was the payment for the penalty for our sin, giving us life and a relationship with Him in the coming dimensions of His reality.  If we only accept that free gift of pardon in exchange, we will see His face.

Hey, Uncle Ted, tell us what you saw?

Will you believe the light of Truth?  He, who has ears to hear, let him hear.


[3] Science Magazine 2003, “Breakthrough of the Year” article


[5] Paul Davies, Cosmic Jackpot, (Boston, New York: Houghton Mifflin Company, 2007), p127

Unification of Science Theories Implies a Oneness in the Beginning

September 13, 2011

Revised 11/30/11

From very early on, the idea that there could be an elementary understanding of nature and it having an explanation in the mathematical and physical world came from Plato.  That was when things were much simpler compared to the twenty-first century.  Now we have volumes of different mathematical equations that explain different physical fundamentals of one nature.  Different disciplines in math and physics demonstrate the big picture of science is dislocated.   Scientists, when examining the work of others, tend to reduce down and remove unwanted rabbit trails that lead away from the core of the theory.  They may even combine cluttered loose ends into one elegant understanding of the observable.  The idea that there is a core explanation of all of nature is not new.

In the nineteenth century, with the work of Maxwell and Faraday in different fields of electricity and magnetism forces, Maxwell discovered this duality was related.  He published his equation that combined the two right-angled forces into a unified theory of Electromagnetism.  It turns out that his equations also describe properties of electromagnetic waves of energy.  This includes light and all the other EM waves such as radio, gamma, etc.     Maxwell’s equations also predicted the speed of light.[1]  Michelson in 1877 conducted his first known successful light speed experiment.  Six years later he collaborated with Edward Morley, spending considerable time and money to create an improved version of the experiment.[2]  For decades the speed of light equation went unnoticed until the twentieth century.

In 1905 Albert Einstein published his theory of Special Relativity SR of the speed of light.  The speed of light was the same regardless of the state of motion of the source.  Special relativity showed that energy and matter are interchangeable under certain conditions.  Between 1907 and 1915 Einstein developed his most elegant theory of General Relativity GR.  This classical field theory combined matter and energy with three space dimensions plus one-time dimension.   General relativity describes how matter and energy dynamically interact with space/time.[3]  The key to this interchangeability, or “unification,” was the addition of a dimension (time).[4]

In the late twentieth century, a fast and furious series of break-troughs produced many Nobel Prize winners in Physics.  Physicists Enrico Fermi developed a theory of the Weak Force WF.  Sheldon Glashow proposed that the Weak Nuclear Force WNF and the EM could arise from a Partially Unified Electroweak UEW theory.  Abdus Salam and Steven Weinberg independently revised Glashow’s theory of having masses for the W particle and Z particle that arise from spontaneous symmetry breaking with the Higgs mechanism.     This breaking becomes short range and the Z and W bosons acquire masses of 80.4 and 91.2 GeV/c² respectively. [5]  Then in 1974 Sheldon Glashow and Howard Georgi wrote papers proposing the Strong interaction and Electroweak Unification Interactions, the first Grand Unified Theory (GUT).   Several proposed Grand Unified Theories make predictions for the relative strengths of the strong, weak and electromagnetic forces.  In 1991 physicists at the Large Electron-Positron Collider (LEP) determined that supersymmetric theories have the correct ratio for coupling Electronuclear forces in a Grand Unified Theory.[6]  Supersymmetry indeed was the key that allowed the weak and strong nuclear forces and electromagnetism to be unified.

Mathematically supersymmetry allows unification of the Electronuclear force with Gravity (TOE).  The equations for determining the size of both quantum mechanics and gravity don’t allow both to coexist in theory.  The equations are known but there is just not enough room for what symmetry demands.  If matter is not infinitely divisible, why should energy be?  The predictions look false because E/∞ ≠0 (E is not infinitely divisible).  If gravity and quantum mechanics are both testable and true, there must be something wrong with their unification prediction.  Point particles created problems with the equations by yielding ultra-high temperatures of the universe.  Point particle models were creating incorrect models but if particles were not points then what would they be?  “Through painstaking effort, John Schwartz’s team and others found that if fundamental particles function as loops of energy, what physicists call “strings,” unification theories and the entire array of physics theories – even special and general relativity, gravity and quantum mechanics – could work together.”[7]  String theories do not work in just a 4D world.  John Schwartz in the mid-1980’s discovered that if four dimensions had not enough room for coexistence and unity, then there must be other space dimensions that would solve the space problem.  Soon Schwartz and his team built extra space-time dimension models ranging from eight to twenty-six.  There soon were millions of possible solutions and the math became very complicated.

The theoretical and observational successes of supersymmetry convinced researchers that extra space dimensions must be the method used in the understanding unification of forces’.  Their success in working in multiple extra spatial dimensions (other then four) led to five workable string theories.  These five were seemingly separate and competing for the correct describing reality.  In late 1994, while people around the world prepared to celebrate Christmas, physicists Edward Witten and Nathan Seiberg gave their own special gift to humanity.  They reduced an entire field of mathematics to a single short explanation.  They transformed these extremely complex equations into simple ones,[8] [9] almost as simple as the calculus equations so familiar to undergraduates.  Whiten and Seiberg helped by eliminating an annoying physical absurdity from supersymmetry theory.  When Witten and Seiberg introduces a hypothetical particle with mass that has the potential to become massless, the absurdity vanished.[10]

Ordinary particle equations, even though they do not involve gravity at all, involve ordinary elementary particle forces and are useful in studying and comparing the real world in situations where gravity is unimportant.  By contrast, for example, string theory incorporates gravity and extra dimensions.

In March 2005 in Brookhaven National Laboratory the Relativistic Heavy Ion Collider (RHIC) showed evidence of a string theory extra dimension.  When gold atoms (hadrons) are stripped of their electrons, this creates a nuclei of gold atoms consist of 79 protons, and 118 neutrons. Both protons and neutrons are made of quarks, held together by massless, chargeless particles called gluons. (Protons contain two “up” quarks and one “down,” while neutrons have two “down” quarks and an “up.”)

When two of these gold nuclei slammed into each other head-on, they melted down into their constituent parts, an incoherent swarm of quarks and gluons. The researchers found that this occurred when the particles reached an energy of 175 million electron volts (MeV).  This corresponds to about 3.7 trillion degrees Fahrenheit (2 trillion degrees Celsius), which is about 125,000 times hotter than the center of the sun.  At that temperature, any hadron will be melted into leptons, photons, W boson,  Z boson, Higgs boson, quarks and gluons.

Modeling the droplets produced in heavy gold nuclei ion collision, but in this case, 10 times as many jets were being absorbed as had been predicted by calculations, they observed properties of an evaporating black hole.  The black hole is not a dominant force as in an astronomical black hole because the gravity is not the dominant force and quickly evaporate away – this one lasted a mere 10-23 second.[11]

The RHIC experiment showed that String theory is an important tool and has a striking success in describing collisions of heavy ion physics, quantum phase transitions which is important in studying phases of condensed matter and the more.  But for Strominger’s black holes to fit neatly into string theory, black holes must become massless at critical moments.  Without violating the principles of gravity, how can there be gravity without mass?

The answer was found in the spatial configuration of a black hole in extra dimensions.  Strominger discovered that in six space dimensions, the mass of a particular black hole (an “extremal” black hole, one with a mass and charge so tiny as to be comparable to one of the fundamental particles) is proportional to its surface area.  By making this area small enough, eventually, the mass becomes zero.  To answer the question another way, special relativity (E = mc2) tells us mass and energy are interchangeable.  General relativity extends this principle to space and time.  When spatial lines are curled up tightly enough, mass and space become interchangeable.  For the tiny black holes Strominger describes, the space curvature is certainly tight enough to accomplish this interchangeability.  As if this finding weren’t enough, Strominger also discovered that his extremal black holes become massless in precisely those circumstances – and only these circumstances – necessary to eliminate the remaining physical absurdities of string theory.  Black holes, which never fit into string theory before, now do fit.  They fit in a way that actually solves string theory’s most perplexing problems.[12]  The unification theory would still be in the dark ages if it weren’t for the power of String Theory.

As explained by Edward Witten: “We don’t understand the theory very well, but there are too many things that circumstantially look right for me to believe it’s on the right track.  Standard quantum theory doesn’t work with gravity while string theory forces us to include gravity.  The qualitative aspects of the elementary particles come out so neatly using string theory.”[13]

But Paul Davies says the reason many scientist hate String Theory is because they hate the Multiverse idea.   The backlash has been fierce.  Paul Steinhardt says the multiverse comes across as a cheap way out of formulating a unique final theory.

As a Christian I try and understand God’s Creation.  I do not know of any scripture that tells of the existence of a multiverse.  I am aware of physicists witnessing an extra-dimensional extremal black hole at the Brookhaven National Laboratory the Relativistic Heavy Ion Collider (RHIC) predicted by String Theory.  For me, the RHIC evidence was convincing enough for extra-dimensions to be real.  Then when I look at scripture, extra-dimensional reality can explain the transcendent attributes of God’s nature.  The reality of God before the beginning of our universe is manifested in His orchestrating future events before time.

Dr. R. C. Sproul explains; “God from all eternity has chosen the foolishness of preaching as the means to which He will bring his people to salvation.  He doesn’t need you and He doesn’t need me but He gives to you and He gives to me the unspeakable privilege and opportunity in participating in His mission.  This mission was not established not as an afterthought, after the fall of this world but the missionary endeavor of the Church and the missionary endeavor of Christ began in eternity.  We call that the Covenant of Redemption.  Before God made a covenant with the human race, there is a covenant in eternity among the three persons of the Godhead; Namely, the Father, the Son, and the Holy Ghost.

And from all eternity it was the plan of God to create a world out of the cosmos and to redeem mankind in that world by sending God the Son into that world on a mission as the Father’s appointed missionary.  ‘Whoever believes in me doesn’t believe in me but in the one who sent me.’  ‘He who sees me sees the Father who sent me.’ ‘I come as a light and he who believes in me should not abide in darkness.’  ‘Anyone who hears my words and does not believe, I do not judge him but those who reject me, it’s my word that will judge him in the final day.’  Jesus says to his disciples, ‘As the Father has sent me, so send I you.’”[14]

Before time started, the Triune God setting in motion the plan of “grace” suggests the possibility of some kind of dimensionality and/or temporality or the equivalent beyond the universe. (see Gen. 1:1; 2 Tim. 1-9; Titus 1:2)  The declaration in Hebrews that the detectable universe was not made from that which is visible may imply the same possibility (Heb. 11:3).  God is both within this time-space dimension and Transcendent, outside our universe with two or more time and four or more space dimensions of His own.

The Bible describes many extra- or transdimensional doctrines that reflect a reality beyond length, width, height and time.  Some examples include the triune nature of God (three persons yet only one essence), God’s simultaneous transcendence and immanence, and the simultaneity of human free choice and divine predetermination.  Scripture also contains accounts of transdimensional or extradimensional events, such as Jesus’s transfiguration (see Matt. 17:1-13; Mark 9:2-13; Luke 9:28-36) and his physical body’s ability to enter a locked room after the resurrection (John 20:19-31).  A God with the capacity to operate both within and beyond extra dimensions could make such “impossibilities” possible.[15]

In His Word we see Him interacting with his creation through His Triune Nature and His Power over trans-/extra-dimensions.   This explains the Designer God from the beauty of His creation.  In the beginning, God created the “heavens and the earth” (meaning the universe).  The word “Create” in the Hebrew means out of nothing comes something ברא bârâ’, ex nihilo.  This “out of nothing” (things not seen) appears suddenly as Matter, Energy, Space and Time.  Creation comes into existence from more than one transcendent extra-dimension, from outside the universe and is manifest as a singularity (the big bang model), with space/time or four dimensions.  In the beginning, at the singularity, all forces are unified and a fraction of a microsecond later, inflation of space/time, caused by a not understood force of dark energy sets in.  13.8 billion years later, galaxies formed with the aid of dark matter still hold together.

The scientific application of the dimensional differences implies that if a transcendent Creator brought this universe into existence, he could structure it with more dimensions than people can imagine.  Because the Bible declares that the Creator intends his creation to reveal both his existence and nature to humans, a universe structured with more than four dimensions could be discovered. [16]  Scientist are still looking deeper into the thirty year old framework of string theory to try and answer the cause of cosmic inflation.  What exactly are dark matter and dark energy?  Finding new insights and learning the answers to these puzzles could be for a very long time.  If God wants us to discover his handiwork, that means it’s not impossible to do so.

“For that which is known about God is evident to them and made plain in their inner consciousness, because God [Himself] has shown it to them.  Forever since the creation of the world His invisible nature and attributes, that is, His eternal power and divinity, have been made intelligible and clearly discernible in and through the things that have been made (His handiworks). So [men] are without excuse….”  (see Rom. 1: 19,20 Amplified Version)

God has been revealed (clearly seen) through the things that are “Made” עשׂה ‛āśâh (from the Hebrew means out of existing materials) and there is no excuse for anyone to say they do not know God’s works (nature).  What is being asked concerning God’s existence is, examine His creation; then either believe it is His workmanship in nature or be an unbeliever of Him.  If anyone chooses to not even examine the evidence, such as the Cosmic Microwave Background Radiation CMB, (the remnant from the big bang model) he has chosen unbelief.  This was exactly the choice Church leaders were given when they were invited to look through Galileo’s telescope; they, because of their unbelief, refused to even look through it to see if there were moons around Jupiter, for fear the Earth was not found to be the center of the universe.  And somehow that fact would prove the Bible not true?  It turns out they had the wrong interpretation of the words of the Bible in their minds.  They totally missed the purpose of Why the Universe?  They didn’t let Nature and Science speak volumes of complexities and top-down perplexities to prove God’s Existence.

Notice then, there is no thanks for what is seen as God’s creation.  Because when they knew and recognized Him as God, they did not honor and glorify Him as God or give Him thanks. But instead they became futile and godless in their thinking [with vain imaginings, foolish reasoning, and stupid speculations] and their senseless minds were darkened. ( Rom. 1: 21 Amplified Version)

Dr. Lon Allison from the Billy Graham Institute said, “When science helps us understand the complexity, the order, and beauty of the heavens, the earth, and the human being, it becomes much easier to then suggest that there must have been a purpose for it all.  Once you get to the purpose questions, you start talking about a personal God and what the whole reason for existence is about, which is theology.  So the science leads us right to good theology.”[17]

[3] Weinberg, S (1972). Gravitation and Cosmology. New York: John Wiley and Sons. pp. 175-210
[4] Hugh Ross, Beyond the Cosmos, 3rd ed. (Orlando Florida: Signalman Publishing, 2010) pp.33
[7] Hugh Ross, Beyond the Cosmos, 3rd ed. (Orlando Florida: Signalman Publishing, 2010) pp.35
[8] K. C. Cole, “Two Physicists Simplify Study of Four-Dimensional Space,” Los Angeles Times, November 29, 1994, A1, A29.
[9] K. Intriligator, R. G. Leigh, and N. Seiberg, “Exact Superpotentials in Four Dimensions,” Physical Review D50 (July 15, 1994): 1092-1104
[10] Hugh Ross, Beyond the Cosmos, 3rd ed. (Orlando Florida: Signalman Publishing, 2010) pps.35-36
[12] Hugh Ross, Beyond the Cosmos, 3rd ed. (Orlando Florida: Signalman Publishing, 2010) pps. 37, 38
[13] Dr. Edward Witten. Interview on Italian Television DIGITALe media: UNA Produzione 2010
[14] R. C. Sproul – Renewing Your Mind, (iTunes podcast), The One Who Sent Me,  06/11/2011
[15] Hugh Ross, Beyond the Cosmos, 3rd ed. (Orlando Florida: Signalman Publishing, 2010) pps. 98, 99
[16] Hugh Ross, Beyond the Cosmos, 3rd ed. (Orlando Florida: Signalman Publishing, 2010) pp. 99
[17] Reasons To Believe, Dual Revelation DVD, Lon Allison interview, 2008

What design tells us about the designing Engineer

August 12, 2011

NASA has worked on a self-portrait of our own milky way galaxy and made it from observations and placed the data in an illustration that represents what we look like.  See for a zoom copy. 

When we look around our own neighborhood, we see unique features in our sun that are not features of any other star.  The characteristics of our Sun of having a “Goldie Locks” uniqueness of not too cold or not to hot attributes encourages life on our planet earth.  The age, size, the makeup of material, the location in our Milky Way galaxy, the number of planets all contribute to this cosmic environment that makes advance life possible here on earth.  Astronomer Dr. Hugh Ross says that we have all the characteristics that are needed to support advanced life in our placement in the universe.   But are there any other places in the creation that can do the same?   Thus far we have not been able to find a twin to our own planet earth.   As we look further and further out in our universe, our own galaxy is all by itself.  It doesn’t look like any other galaxy.  If it doesn’t have a twin then it is one of a kind.  As a part of a cluster of galaxies known as the ‘local group,’ we see that they are unique.   As we go further out, we find that clusters we are apart of are not common.   No twins at all these levels mean uniqueness for us and is a strong tool for measuring that uniqueness.  Some skeptic scientists say our sun and earth may be finely tuned for advanced life but there is no room for a Creator God in that uniqueness.  But these many measurements heap up a strong reason for the existence of a God Creator – Designer.

The numbers of many different requirements for life and for fine-tuning of the design of the universe – shows up in the many constants in the formulas that describe various foundations of physics.  For example, the exact size of an electron or the proton, the exact speed of light, the exact slowing and then speeding up of the expansion rate of our universe and even the amount of mass in the universe are all detailed design features.  To me, that is what makes my jaw drop because there is no natural chance for 10 x 10410 in all we need for it to come together by itself from chance with all these variables being so precise.

Before my retirement and as an engineer, when I would make a simple design change, it wasn’t so simple to build.  I would find that it would consume much more of my time then I thought it would.  That little design would affect all the other many little details and codes that make up whole design.   Just a small little part of the total final design would make or break a mining electrical locomotive or a subway train.  I have also designed and built my own home.  I never thought it would take so long to bring it to where it is today.  I found that I would be brooding over the way it was turning out.  I would even tare down and rebuild because it was not right; Right meaning either for me or for the building code.  Magnify that complexity to the level of just this solar system.  A good design is in the details.  And there are details in all we see and cannot see!  The complexity is enormous.  But the point is that the engineer wants to see his design work and be right.  The other amazing part is God foresaw the end result before he made one thing.  He saw and made the complexity right at the first beginning of time and matter and all without trial and testing.

Then for the complexity of all, His greatest form of life where he breathed his Spirit into a being.  He gave His last creation, this man called Adam, His Spirit for the foresight and purpose that He could and would have a loving relationship with His creation.


April 3, 2010

Wednesday, March 31, 2010, on KKLA FM radio on the Frank Pastore Show there was a debate called “Thousands or Billions” between Drs. Hugh Ross and Jason Lisle.  Both claimed the Bible as inspired Word of God and both used passages in their two views of creation.  I listened closely to see what scriptures would be used.  My attention was drawn to what Jason Lisle did about the creation account.  He said there were no passages of the creation account in the bible other than in Genesis.  This was further emphasized by him saying that Psalms 90 was poetry and could not be used by Hugh Ross in explaining the Genesis creation account.  That to me was an incredible statement.

Let’s assume we can apply “Reductio ad absurdum” (a logical rebuttal that takes a proposition to its logical extremes and examines the veracity of the conclusions the proposition implies in those extremes) [1] to this logic.  Using that technique we will assume that Jason is correct and we are not allowed to use any other passage to explain creation and apply it to what happened in the beginning.  That would deny even Jesus himself from explaining creation by using Psalms.  That means we must throw out Job 38, Psalms 148:5; Isaiah 40:26; 42:5; 45:5-22, Colossians 1:15-17; Proverbs 8:22-31; John 17:24; Ephesians 1:4; 2 Timothy 1:9; Titus 1:2 and 1 Peter 1:20.  We cannot speak of the heavens being “stretched out” as a singularity event by five different Bible authors penning such a statement in eleven different verses: Job 9:8; Psalm 104:2; Isaiah 40:22; 42:5; 44:12; 45:12; 48:13; 51:13; Jeremiah 10:12; 51:15; and Zechariah 12:1.  Now that is over the top of absurdum!

It’s hard to talk to some Christians who are not implicitly revitalizing their own conviction or beliefs about creation and its interface with Christianity.  We have a problem where we see a totally aggressive corruptive nature of Relativistic Culture in the Christian community that has so deeply socialized our people of the faith.   Young earth creationists speak with a sense of authority and with the forcefulness of their YEC view and become closed minded to any countering evidence that would challenge their belief.

The Bible presents a creatio ex nihilo (creation out of nothing) event and I apply the big bang to that only because of the verses above that I’m not allowed to use.  That’s my view of the creation event and I’m within my rights to do that.  Young earth creationists say I cannot apply any other verse outside of Genesis to that event.  Do you see how deceptive that is?  This is like talking about colors of paint.  I like purple and I have my purple truth of creation.  You cannot use any other color to see creation other than purple.  That’s my understanding of reality and that’s the way it is.

Question: If this is your reality, what do you mean by that?  What is meant is it’s your belief?  But of course, if your belief is not true, it’s not your reality but your falsehood.

But if your belief is true then you are in touch with reality and others who disagree with that are not in touch with reality and their contrary views are their falsehood.  I would be doing them a favor by getting them in touch with reality by applying all scripture as truth.

There is no room for this epistemical conservatism nonsense!  (def. Epistemic conservatism has the view that one is, to some degree, justified in believing something simply because one believes it.)  Having, “this is my reality” and you “having your reality” is saying this is my truth and others have their truth.  Wait a minute, what do you mean by truth?  Well, my belief.  Is there a difference between, belief and make believe?  Can believing something make it true?  If believing something can’t make something true, then belief isn’t always a truth, it’s a belief which is either true or false.

Now, if your belief is true, then good for you.  But if other people don’t believe this belief then their belief is false and not true.  Yours is true and theirs is false and that’s the way it is!  And there is no way out of this.  If it turns out that your belief is not true then it “ain’t” a truth, friend.  It’s a false!  Something else is the case instead.

Let me develop this further.  If there is a precondition to becoming a Christian, then we have a problem.   I used the color analogy in describing a sort of flavor or liking.  Truth is not like that and is not relative.  We cannot apply our flavor to the truth.  Our understanding of or interpretation of evidence could be totally wrong.  We must go to the evidence to see if what is presented true by comparing A with B.  Does our understanding of Genesis line up with other passages of the same Book of God?   If they are not equal then our understanding is grossly flawed.  God’s Word cannot be different in two separate places.  God’s general revelation (nature) cannot be different from His Word.  Presuppositions are not always the truth.  We get it wrong most of the time when we make this kind of application to our judgments.  We need to test the flavor to see if it is a truth.

Let me look at another side or corner to relativism and the creation issue.  Now let me ask the question.  I wonder if a person who thinks they are a Christian and believe that truth is relative, I wonder if they can actually be a Christian?  Because if that is so, then they aren’t “believers” (grammar mine) in Jesus in the way that Jesus requires belief in Him for salvation.  If we require something in addition to the side or we require something be removed from the Word, then salvation is with an addendum to its work.  There are many who don’t apply this baggage and are true Christians.  I’m not talking about them.  But if this addendum is applied then it’s another religion, not a faith, and is other then what Christianity was meant to be for our salvation.  This is what happens when one says you must believe in a young earth creation when you become a Christian.  Again, that is Religion and not a Faith, friend!  That is called a religion of legalism much like the religion (not belief) of the Pharisees when they added to the Mosaic Law.  That is what happens when seekers of the truth are told they must believe in purple (required understanding) and not the general revelation of God and the oneness of His Word!  See my last blog “Go and Make Disciples” on how that can be a pseudo-requirement to salvation and it’s done from the pulpit and many times not in writing.



[1]^ a b Nicholas Rescher. “Reductio ad absurdum”. The Internet Journal of Philosophy. Retrieved 21 July 09.


March 19, 2010

My beliefs are rooted in the Book of Scripture and the book of nature.  These two revelations cannot disagree and be untruthful because they are from God.   I believe in the very words of the Bible right down to the word structures, meanings, and definitions. I don’t believe in evolution.  I’m not the son of Carl Sagan.

Question, if creation was not a big deal with my church, why is YE preached as if it were a core value?  Many get the impression without reading them that this is what the Church stands for.  This is such a touchy point that when anyone writes a letter, why does the senior pastor see a need to remind the church of this pseudo value?  This to me is evidence the Church has been hijacked and 10s of thousands hearing the message get it!  Why not go for it and make it a true core value?  I’m glad that has not yet happened.

Mark Ashion said, “If somebody comes in at the front end and says that in order to believe Jesus you need to believe that the earth is also a younger earth, what that does is it puts up one more intellectual barrier that they have to overcome in order to become a Christian. Oftentimes for people, that barrier is a harder barrier for them to overcome than a belief in Jesus, that God became a human being and that he died on the cross to pay for our sins that he resurrected from the dead. For some people, a young earth is a harder thing to swallow than that.”  When pseudo values take root in the minds and hearts of members of the Body, the issue becomes a salvation issue! We are in great danger when we keep the “seeking ones”, the unsaved ones from coming to Jesus.  Every time there is a big deal about young earth, the pastor is effectively placing this pseudo core value in the way of salvation for many.  The message is loud, clear and often.

Now here is the rub, God gave me a life of science and engineering, a testimony if you will, and that is being attacked and diminished through this rhetoric.  It is not through my effort but a gift from God that is driving me.  We will always have opposition to the gospel, but it should not be fellow Christians who do this.  Many are confronting me on this issue without testing the spirits to see if the Bible and nature are true.  Why do people wish blindness on themselves by not looking?

I had a couple confront me at the end of a Sunday school class.  I could see necks turning red, their faces were ready to explode, their eyes darting, their voices trembling and filled with anger from their heart, and saying “how in the world can I not believe in the creation of 6,000 years and the 6 day/24 hour creation?”   They were saying in effect that I don’t believe in the Bible!  I said that between the word phrase of “heavens and earth” which means “universe” in Geneses 1:1 is approximately 9 to 10 billion years.  How could I believe such a thing?  My answer was “because; the general revelation of God cannot lie for God cannot lie.”  It is as if they were asking “how can I call myself Christian?”  There seems to be a little tension there.

Let us take a step back and imagine an elder’s meeting in the Church and have this issue come up.  Having people on this side of the issue (YE) and people on that side (OE) and they both say “how can you be on that side and still say you love God and be a Christian?”  What the Church is tempted to do is to not bring up anything about creation.  Some would argue that it has nothing to do with salvation so we don’t deal with the problem.  But that is far from the truth.  It has everything to do with the salvation for those who know general revelation of God and are not saved.

All Churches will always be imperfect because they are run by people.  But the fabric of the Body of Christ is, He has divinely established it by the Holy Spirit and its God in us and by divinely establishing the Body, he wants us to submit to His authority given by God.  The goal is to be the very best follower and disciple of Jesus as possible until or unless that Church demands obedience and citizenship that would violate primary directives of free salvation, our purpose, and submission to God.  This is a matter of “conscious” and the Holy Spirit on how we should serve Him.  We must be pure in our motive of service and worship.

The Church is ordained by God to make disciples.  The Church is ordained by God to bring about internal transformations of individual lives that in turn transform cultures and transform societies.  This is not the role of government.  Jesus does this transformation through grace and salvation.  It has to go in and come from within.  The Church is given Mathew 28: 18 19.  “All authority has been given to Me in heaven and on earth.   Go therefore and make disciples of all the nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and the Son and the Holy Spirit, teaching them to observe all that I commanded you; and lo, I am with you always, even to the end of the age.”

GO AND MAKE DISCIPLES!  If we limit the “how” one becomes a follower of God by setting up pseudo or false barriers, then we should be very worried for ourselves because we are not doing the work and will of God.

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